Hair trauma, curl discovery, and embracing authenticity: stories from our live event

We're kicking off the second season of the Curl Code by sharing a vulnerable, illuminating, sometimes hilarious and alwways incredible conversation from the launch party of the show last year.

This live event brought together curlies and non-curlies of different generations and backgrounds to discuss lived experiences of having curly hair. Regardless of what else we might not have in common, we discovered funny and not-so-funny stories of hair trauma, struggle, and finally, embrace that revealed to us the things we share, and helped us learn about what's changed--and still needs to change--to allow all of us to live as our most authentic selves and embrace our curly crowns.

Our non-curly allies helped us understand their own experiences and limitations, and even our wavy and swavy friends got a little reassurance that there is a place for them in the the curl universe too! 

This conversation exemplifies the openness, authenticity and healing we stand for in this show, and at the Curly Oasis salon and education platform. We hope you'll find solidarity, companionship, and discovery in this show, and realize that whatever you hair trauma or curl experience may be, you are not alone!

Continue your curly hair styling and education journey on our Instagram!

Links/more:

The CROWN Act: The CROWN Act, which stands for “Creating a Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair,” is currently being adopted on a state by state basis to ban hair-based discrimination at schools and workplaces. Braided twists or locs, “as long as style is neat in appearance” are allowed for women–but not men–in the military.

Environmental working group

INCI app: On Apple and Android

On personal products disrupting the endocrine system:
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/09/09/nx-s1-5099419/hair-and-skin-care-products-expose-kids-to-hormone-disrupting-chemicals-study-finds#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20links%20the%20recent%20use%20of%20personal%20care,of%20exposure%20to%20these%20chemicals.

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/cosmetics/cosmetic-products-specific-topics/endocrine-disruptors_en

On levels of cancer in brown and Black communities:

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/health-equity/african-american.html#:~:text=Black%20people%20have%20the%20highest,cancers%20at%20a%20late%20stage.

https://www.cancer.org/about-us/what-we-do/health-equity/cancer-disparities-in-the-black-community.html

Meet some of our guests:
Sydnei
Susan and Ashira, Thrive Yoga
Luby Ismail, Connecting Cultures

CHAPTER MARKERS
00:00 Welcome to Season Two of the Curl Code
01:49 Personal Stories of Hair Struggles
09:13 Cultural and Generational Perspectives on Curly Hair
13:47 Workplace Discrimination and the Crown Act
31:57 The Importance of Authenticity
37:34 Closing Remarks and Gratitude

Transcript

The Curl Code: Season 2, Episode 1

**Note: This is an AI-generated transcript with voice recognition. The robots are great, but they're not perfect! Please read with grace. Namaste!**

[00:00:00] Wafaya: Welcome to season two of the Pearl Club. We're celebrating our new season by sharing the live recording of the podcast launch party from last year. Our guests shared stories, lessons, and memories that exemplify the kind of vulnerability and authenticity we stand for. It was amazing to hear how many experiences we share.

[00:00:31] Wafaya: How much has changed and yet still needs to change to make space for all of us to live authentically. Our time at that gathering was truly a gift and one I am so honored to share with all of you now.

[00:00:51] Wafaya: When I bought this business in 2005, it was not a curly hair salon. It was your average salon trying to fit in. [00:01:00] And so we want to start a conversation about natural hair, and I'm going to have Sydney and Alex really lead it. And so ladies, take it away. 

[00:01:08] Syd: Okay, hi, welcome everyone. So as you guys know, I am Syd.

[00:01:13] Syd: I'm one of the stylists here at Oasis. Alex, one of the other stylists here. And the purpose of tonight is to really bring awareness to the dialogue and the culture around curly hair. I know the fact that every single person in this room, being a curly headed person, Has had their own experience with curly hair and has their own story to share behind that.

[00:01:36] Syd: So an open question, we would love for anyone who has an opinion, a voice to speak, we would love to know what your experience is with curly hair. We would love to know what did you think when you first realized you had curly hair? 

[00:01:49] Ashira: Ashira. I can't believe you guys want to know this. This is great. Fine. Uh, I [00:02:00] had struggled with it my whole life.

[00:02:02] Ashira: It actually wasn't until I came to this salon in my forties that I learned how to style it. And It was, I did everything. I went to the wrong people and got it cut and looked like that. I was called Elvis for a few years as a nickname because of that. I brush it. My mom was always trying to brush it. Uh, that did not work out well.

[00:02:32] Ashira: I mean, for me, Frizz was, I must've had every Frizz product on the market and none of them work, right? Cause you know, you just, I didn't know how to use them. Washing all the time, getting it blow dried straight as whenever somebody could. you know, like a special treat. And then when I got older, I did Brazilians for years, straightening it because [00:03:00] I did not know how to manage it.

[00:03:03] Ashira: And 

[00:03:03] Syd: understandable. I mean, no one teaches it, right? It's just something that we're all given. I mean, curly hair is the dominant trait and we're expected to either conform to societal norms and to change it. Or deal with the frizz, deal with the unmanageability of it. 

[00:03:20] Ashira: I, from my late teens through my early mid thirties, I wore a lot of wigs, three quarter pieces and ponytails.

[00:03:30] Ashira: Yeah, like that was how much I didn't know what to do. Like I said, not until my forties when I came here. 

[00:03:37] Syd: Yeah. Anyone else want to share their experience? 

[00:03:42] Wafaya: That was Ashira and now we have Deborah. 

[00:03:46] Joan: I think I have always struggled with my hair and like it's just never been a big deal for me to have perfect hair.

[00:03:55] Joan: Um, I think in, when I was in my teens I liked to go swimming and I would [00:04:00] swim in the summer and I'd look like straw, but it didn't matter because it wasn't all that important to me. And then, When I graduated from business school, you know, trying to look like the professional woman, I was living in Chicago and I went to this great salon and they blow dry my hair and I curl it and so on and it looked great and one day in particular I went and I paid the, you know, several hundred dollars to get my hair done and I didn't have enough cash for a tip so I said to my stylist, I'm going to run to the ATM and I ran out to the ATM and I came back and she's like, is it raining?

[00:04:29] Joan: What happened to your hair? And I said, this is what happens all the time. Like I leave here and it looks perfect and I get out and it frizzes and it's this whole other thing. And she said, well, I can redo it. And I said, no, I'm okay with it. And I think that's the point at which I thought, get okay with it.

[00:04:45] Joan: You're spending far too much money. And then again, I love my stylist. She was amazing. But this, her reaction was probably the reaction that I had and that like, Oh my God, I'm spending all this money and this is it. So I, I then accepted it and then started on the [00:05:00] journey and it is a journey. Like what products to use, what's the right length, because back then it was longer, do I go shorter, it's such a journey, and then when I start to go gray, like what do I color, we're still working through, I've had a couple of therapy sessions here, but that's, it's, it's an ongoing journey, but then so is pretty much everything in life.

[00:05:18] Syd: Yeah, I mean, I think Alex and I can both attest to the get okay with it. You've had your own personal experiences growing up with what your hair is like and what that journey is. 

[00:05:30] Alex: Exactly. So my realization of having curly hair wasn't that I had curly hair because I was told my hair was nappy. So I didn't realize I had curly hair until I finally got to a point after relaxing my hair for 20 years and fighting with my hair for my whole life that I was just like, you know, I was learning my son's hair cause he was about.

[00:05:51] Alex: You know, getting to be about a year old and I was learning his curls. And I'm like, if I gave birth to him and he has curls, I probably got the same here. So let me see [00:06:00] what's up under here. You know, if I leave these relaxers alone and that's when I realized I had curly hair and then the floodgates opened and I was, you know, scrounging YouTube and Instagram for any wisdom I could find on curly hair, but.

[00:06:18] Alex: I felt a lot of good marketing, not really the wisdom I needed until I came to Oasis. Yes, 

[00:06:25] Syd: that marketing piece, I mean, it gets every curly person. Because again, we're being told to manage it, to tame our mane, and it's unrealistic for our hair. It's not what our hair is meant to do. Our hair is perfectly okay the way it is, and it needs more representation.

[00:06:40] Syd: And I mean, how many of us feel represented in the world with our natural texture? Realistically here. No one. It's not, it's not a thing. Not yet at least. 

[00:06:53] Guest: Allison. Okay, yeah, it's perfect. Um, so growing up, I was one of six kids and [00:07:00] my brother nicknamed me Rattles because I had ratty hair. Like that's what he, that's what they, because it was curly.

[00:07:06] Guest: My siblings had manageable hair. I also couldn't wash it every day or every other day like the kids in school and I think that they knew that so that was another. form of like teasing, you know, um, Dorothy Hamill was a big hair. I couldn't do that hairdo. My sister first day of school. I mean, I'm over it.

[00:07:26] Guest: It sounds like, um, but I remember she had the Dorothy Hamill and she had dark hair and dark eyes like her. And I had this bouffant that looked awful. And I was in the first grade. I look like I was 40. So it's interesting. Um, I didn't get curly embracing until I came here in my mid forties. Up until that point, I would often chemically treat it, or flat iron it, or it was constantly up in a bun or a scrunchie because I didn't know how to either manage it or embrace it.

[00:07:57] Guest: And I think if you grow up in a [00:08:00] period of time where that's the beauty is that the blonde poker straight hair, or the Farrah Fawcett. feathered hair and you can't achieve that, you try to hide it or mask it or manipulate it and it never, I think the woman over here had said, the second I would hit outside, no matter how much they did to manipulate, and it was a lot, it would be like, what happened?

[00:08:21] Guest: You know, so it's great in this age of 2023 that we're, I'm seeing more even curly haired actresses on TV. That's a nice thing to see. Cause I used to try to like. Find those individuals. The only one I remember was E. R. I can't remember her name. Julia something. And I was like, oh finally a curly. Yes. And it was great because I saw a curly haired actress on TV who wasn't Doing the Jennifer Aniston look.

[00:08:47] Guest: So I know which only reinforced I should be doing something to manipulate my hair not to be curly. So thank you for. 

[00:08:58] Syd: No, absolutely. Thank you [00:09:00] for sharing. It's an it's important to highlight these moments when we do finally realize someone over here. 

[00:09:08] Guest (2): Oh, please come 

[00:09:09] Wafaya: up. 

[00:09:10] Guest (2): My perspective on my curly hair. Um, Has been difficult and associated with a lot of pain.

[00:09:20] Guest (2): Um, I'm a member of the baby boomer generation. And, um, during the time when I was grown, and I'm, um, five generations removed from slavery. So, that's the environment I grew up in. And, um, Uh, as I was until I could manage my hair myself, um, getting my hair done, uh, getting my hair washed, even washed was painful because what followed was a painful, um, uh, step of getting my [00:10:00] hair straightened with a hot comb and grease and the grease would run it down into my scalp and burn my scalp.

[00:10:07] Syd: Crackle pop. 

[00:10:09] Guest (2): That's what they did. Um, and um, the perspective on curly hair when I was growing up was that it was, there was something wrong with you. That you had not been, that God had not treated you well by giving you curly hair and that you were not an attractive person because of it. Um, and so everything that could be done to make your hair straight.

[00:10:37] Guest (2): Was done. Um, as a matter of fact, um, I think in some of the, uh, cotillions, you had to pass the test to have straight hair. I know there was the brown bag test, um, you had to, your skin had to be lighter than a brown paper bag in order to be, and to, uh, yes, be allowed in, uh, but straight hair was also a requirement, [00:11:00] um, and I think the thing I want to share with you that is, um, most painful to me.

[00:11:07] Guest (2): And also representative of how my generation viewed curly hair was my mother's last words to me on her dying bed was to get my hair straightened. 

[00:11:19] Laughter 

[00:11:23] Guest (2): That's how That's how important it was. And, um, the amount of money that I've spent, uh, because when I went to work in corporate America, you could not, um, you could not have curly hair.

[00:11:40] Guest (2): Uh, I grew up in, you know, I was an adult when the notion of wearing an afro became acceptable. Um, and, uh, so, you know, Uh, when I came into corporate America, you couldn't do that. Um, and particularly women, by the way, because, uh, there was a lot of [00:12:00] bias. I went to work for AT& T, and the attitude toward women at that time was that, uh, only women of ill repute, uh, went to work.

[00:12:11] Guest (2): So in order to come into a company building, you had to have white gloves and a hat. And fortunately, I lived to see that change over time. But. You know, so there was the, uh, feminine beauty aspects to deal with, and there was also, um, the, um, I will call it the ethnic aspects to deal with. So, uh, I am so pleased to have witnessed that whole transformation and to discover that it's no longer considered that there's something wrong with you or that you're defective.

[00:12:52] Guest (2): As a matter of fact, I have girlfriends. I have a girlfriend who is blonde and blue eyed. Her hair is curlier than mine. [00:13:00] So, uh, a lot of those myths and attitudes have changed over time. And I just want to say, I'm glad of it.

[00:13:12] Wafaya: Thank you, Joan. You 

[00:13:13] Syd: made some amazing points with your words. You had mentioned the, um, the cultural background, of course, but also the ancestral background of natural hair. And I'm sure for not only African American women, but for women of many. Different ethnic groups, women and men, people out there have experienced their, as Alex loves to say, their ancestral wisdom behind their hair and the fact that people who were not of a certain, um, standard in this country and in many other countries have experienced discrimination based off of their hair.

[00:13:47] Syd: I mean, even in the workplace, like you had mentioned, we have the Crown Act now. That, you know, banned the discrimination of natural hair textures in the workplace because it is that deep and it goes so much deeper beyond that. I [00:14:00] mean, Alex, I know you have your own experience with workplace discrimination of hair.

[00:14:04] Syd: Oh my gosh, 

[00:14:05] Alex: yes. So, I spent a good eight years. Um, and the hair standards have come a long way, like as far as the inclusivity of it all, but back when I came in, I, um, I just can't remember being in technical training school and, um, having my hair out and like a little puff. and everything. And, you know, a T.

[00:14:29] Alex: I. Walked up to me and just was like, you know, I bet if I put a ruler up to your hair, it's greater than three inches in bulk, which was the dress and appearance standard for women's hair. And I was just like, well, I can't really like, that's my hair, which you want me to do, you know, but it just, Thankfully, the standards have changed to a point where they include people whose hair is just naturally bulky and, you know, we can live our lives now in a way that includes everyone instead of excluding people [00:15:00] simply for the way their hair grows out of their scalp.

[00:15:03] Alex: Absolutely. And 

[00:15:04] Wafaya: what Sydney's referring to, I don't know if you all are aware of what the Crown Act is. Uh, it is, um, what is it, an act that's being proposed and it's going state by state, uh, where people can wear their, their, it's, you can't discriminate against natural texture, um, in the workplace. 

[00:15:24] Syd: Yeah.

[00:15:26] Syd: And of course, this goes for curlies of all types, but how many of you guys have, you know, gotten ready for work one day and your curls had started to curl, maybe you had recently gotten a blowout or some kind of straightening style. And then that little bit of frizz starts peeking through that tiny bit of curl starts to show itself.

[00:15:41] Syd: And then you think, am I going to be questioned for how my hair looks? Is this professional? I mean, what defines professionalism, the way my hair is straightened or how I show up and perform my job? 

[00:15:53] Mm. 

[00:15:55] Syd: Good one. Absolutely. 

[00:15:57] Wafaya: Yeah, and earlier I think, Ashira, you were saying, and for [00:16:00] special occasions, I would get it straightened.

[00:16:02] Wafaya: We hear that so much. You know, it's a special occasion, I have to get my hair straightened. Why don't you bleach your skin while you're at it, right? Or whatever else, I don't know, get a nose job. I mean, that's really what we're seeing. of our biological makeup. And so that's also I think what you're alluding to Sydney is, you know, how do you feel represented in the world?

[00:16:24] Wafaya: How do you feel? Um, as far as curly hair and professionalism, I'd love to hear some thoughts around that. 

[00:16:33] Nichelle: Hi, I'm Nichelle. I am a long time believer in this space, it was this space that helped me to, um, understand that I had a network of people that could help me overcome some of the trauma that I had that came along with the expectation of straight hair.

[00:16:56] Nichelle: I work at a, predominantly white institution [00:17:00] in Washington, D. C. And when I got my job, of course I had to straighten my hair. And I definitely feel like there are these expectations that you're more professional. You are seen to be more validated if you have the straight hair. Coming into this space, coming into your like support network.

[00:17:26] Nichelle: I just felt like I was available to combat some of the like hurt that comes with denying aspects of my personality that come with the curly hair. I definitely love when I can go through my school community. I'm a pre K teacher and I love that the kids are like you have curly hair like you wear your hair in this, you know, kind of this Afro.

[00:17:57] Nichelle: And. I love that I can [00:18:00] say to kids who are curious about touching someone's hair, like, don't touch my hair. Let's read this book. There's a real book called Don't Touch My Hair. And historically speaking, I think predominantly white institutions, the lower school, the elementary level, there's a lot of curiosity that comes with.

[00:18:21] Nichelle: So I definitely know that the courage and the, Affirmation that I received in this space and actually coming to appointments where I'm like, Oh, okay. So everyone, you know, the level of melanin is different. The people that come here, they all have this curly hair journey and you're my sister. You're my people.

[00:18:45] Nichelle: And you embrace your, your journey in the same way that I do in a way that I never did before. Like you open up the space for me to see. That I'm not by myself. And as an early childhood [00:19:00] professional, I only encourage individuals to be who they are. Beautiful. And to 

[00:19:08] Syd: go off, you made some amazing points about it's not just ethnic.

[00:19:14] Syd: I mean, how many white women with curly hair felt like they could not go to a non white salon to get their hair done? How many of them felt uncomfortable walking in the door saying they're not going to know how to treat my hair. They're not going to know what to do with my hair, right? And then let's switch that role.

[00:19:30] Syd: How many women of color have gone to a predominantly white salon and said, they don't know what to do with my hair. That wall is there. That ethnic wall is there throughout this entire community. And it is so much greater than it seems. The curly industry is one of the most beautiful things because we tried to break down that barrier.

[00:19:49] Syd: We tried to eliminate the divide between, I mean, white and non white people and say, you know what? Most people in this universe have curly hair. Why can't we [00:20:00] come together and do it as one? Absolutely. I love those points, Michelle. Thank you. 

[00:20:05] Susan: So, I want to, um, say that I had no idea what the topic was tonight.

[00:20:13] Susan: And I think that that was definitely not a coincidence. Um, I had no idea about any of this hardship. And I've always wanted to have curly hair. And the fact of the matter is, while you all were speaking, is, like, the point is, person I want to date, I want him to have curly hair. And so I want, and I spent, I remember my mom used to buy these curlers, those foam pink curlers and the electric curl as you snapped them.

[00:20:45] Susan: And, and I used to always love like to put curlers in my hair and have curly hair. And I also, um, I got perms as a kid and they never looked as beautiful [00:21:00] as your hair. I didn't have trauma over my hair. So what didn't walk around saying, Oh, I'm I'm feeling trauma because my hair is not curly. But I always thought curly haired people were more fun.

[00:21:13] Susan: And Isn't that right? And I was like, and I'm noticing I had all these biases and stereotypes and I was just thinking about that. And, um, I remember recently, so now that you're all talking about this, I really started to see more curly hair because I remember one time a woman had a beautiful, very high, curly hair Do experience whatever and I almost didn't tell her how beautiful her hair was because I was afraid to and Now I'm wondering why I wonder why that was and maybe I was picking up that there was some Trauma behind the hair or I didn't want to [00:22:00] insult.

[00:22:00] Susan: Maybe it was the white divide You know, because this was a black woman, but her hair was really cool. Had different, different, different curls and colors. And she was so beautiful. The hair, you know? So, um, I can't wait to come here and get my hair more curly because I've been told it's wavy. So maybe we can boost it up and I can like, you know, do whatever to be, can we do it tonight?

[00:22:25] Susan: No, I'm just 

[00:22:26] Christina: kidding. Yes. Christina. I would love to actually. So I'm Christina and I've been sitting next to Linda and we just had this conversation about how we think her hair is curly. And I actually started coming to this salon when I was 16 years old. Um, and my hair was straight because I was blow drying it all the time.

[00:22:47] Christina: And when Wafeya started getting into the curly, she, We've, I think we had the same conversation every time I came here for a year, about how my hair was [00:23:00] actually curly. And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. 

[00:23:04] I would leave after I like asked her to blow dry it. And then I would come back. 

[00:23:10] Christina: Um, so thank goodness.

[00:23:13] Christina: Now that's, I think now I've been wearing it only curly for 20 years and I have not blow dried it in at least 10 years. And I, I'm me. I'm me now. I love it. That's 

[00:23:27] Alex: beautiful. 

[00:23:31] Syd: I love that two, um, somewhat wavy and swavy women have just spoken, because that's also a huge divide in the curly community. And I have to speak for myself on this one.

[00:23:40] Syd: I, if you had a wave, I didn't think you were curly before I started working here. I was like, Oh, it's wavy hair. You have to do so much to encourage it. It's not curls. Every type, every form, every bend in the hair that is a curl. And so many women come in who have wavy hair and they'll say, well, everyone tells me it's not curly and I don't know where to go [00:24:00] because it doesn't fully work out with like a straight hair technique.

[00:24:03] Syd: But curly hair doesn't seem to like, I don't feel like I fit in. And it's like, trust me, you belong. You are wavy. You are valid in that. And it's an experience that you have your own journey on. That's completely different than mine, but it's real. 

[00:24:17] Wafaya: Do you guys want to address some of, uh, the surprises? Right?

[00:24:21] Wafaya: I know you and I talked about it in your podcast, Sid. And Alex, because you're the latest edition, I'd love to hear from you the ancestral wisdom myths. The biggest one that kind of really shocked you. 

[00:24:35] Alex: Oh my goodness. So when I had my, I call it my Oasis baptism, my first day of work here, like onboarding and everything right before I was about to leave.

[00:24:46] Alex: Well, Faya said, so do you want us to set your curls? And I was like, yes, of course. Like I'm in the curly Oasis. Yes. I want my curls set. And so everyone came by and is washing my hair and I left out of here with my curls looking more beautiful than they've ever looked. [00:25:00] And then I get home the next couple of days and I'm like, so when do I want my scalp?

[00:25:04] Alex: And you know, like, what do I, how do I maintain this and everything? And they're like, yeah, no oils. So, so much of what we were taught all our lives to grease our scalps, to seal in the moisture with heavy oils and things like a lot of it is just that it's ancestral wisdom. Ancestral wisdom is really based in your ancestors doing the best they could with what they had.

[00:25:30] Alex: And, um, you know, we had to grow from that place. So when I got here is when a lot of that growth happened. Because, um, I had been taught to, You know, use the blue magic, the, the grease with the petrochemicals and the synthetic fragrances and the microplastics. All the things we tell y'all not to do is what I have been doing my whole life.

[00:25:53] Alex: So definitely that really helped make me a believer was my own journey since I got here. [00:26:00] Learning to like the truth versus like What I had been taught all my life. 

[00:26:05] Wafaya: Well, and greasing your scalp, that's such an interesting concept. Because, you know, we have sebaceous glands that are producing oil. And, you know, if your facial skin is oily, as the Curly Girl book, you know, taught us, So is your scalp.

[00:26:21] Wafaya: It's just an extension of your face. And so now you're putting these non water soluble ingredients on it that's actually hindering the natural ecosystem of your scalp from functioning properly. Um, but again, I mean, it's not that people are evil. It's, you know, it's just the awareness. Right? We're learning more and more.

[00:26:45] Wafaya: And I love that you mentioned the microplastics and the petrochemicals and, you know, yes, we do have gentlemen here. I'm gonna speak to everyone, but ladies especially, because we're, we're the ones [00:27:00] spending more time on lotions and makeup and hair and all the things that we put on our bodies. Do your research.

[00:27:08] Wafaya: Just take the first five. Ingredients and look it up through the environmental working group, and there's another app that is called INCI, I N C I, that's out of Europe, because European standards are a little, uh, stricter than ours, and see what you're actually putting. on your bodies. What is your skin absorbing?

[00:27:28] Wafaya: We do a lot of research here and what we're finding the most is that a lot of the ingredients that are used in our beauty care actually disrupt our endocrine system. I mean, that's serious. Hormones are everything. And, uh, you know, just do the research. And we're finding also that in brown and black communities, there are more incidents and risks of cancer, uh, that is linked to disruption of the endocrine system.

[00:27:59] Wafaya: [00:28:00] And again, manufacturers are not evil. But we do vote with our dollar. And so if we can take the time to become aware and educated and start making more demands and supporting companies that are taking these things more seriously, then eventually there will be a tidal wave and everything will change.

[00:28:19] Syd: Yeah, absolutely. It's um, it's time for change. And I think that's something that is heavily focused on in the curl community and the world in this day and age, realistically, we are moving forward. And that's one thing that we have to do with our hair is move forward. We cannot continue to be held to these standards.

[00:28:36] Luby: Yes, Luby. I want to say that WFAP changed my life because as a public speaker and I always said I need to look professional. And to look professional meant [00:29:00] I had to go get my hair straightened and do the whole, the whole thing of. Getting it rolled, blow dried, ironed, to look good, right? To look right, to fit in what was considered professional.

[00:29:27] Luby: And it was when I was asked to speak at Microsoft for Martin Luther King Jr. weekend, and I said, what am I doing? Am I gonna go, and as one of the speakers said, Am I gonna be authentically me? Or am I gonna be what so called others think I should be? And that was the beginning, and Wafat knows. Every time I had [00:30:00] something to go to, I didn't go anymore to the Dominican Republican hairdressers who I loved and spent hours, but I came here and coming here was coming home.

[00:30:20] Luby: Coming here was coming home. 

[00:30:21] Syd: That is beautiful. 

[00:30:23] Luby: You know, I grew up the first time I went to a hairdresser, a white hairdresser, and the first thing I heard as a child was, She has bad hair. And I, I feel for the girls. And that's why I brought a young woman here. Uh, that I said I wanted her to know before she goes to NYU.

[00:30:53] And, 

[00:30:58] Luby: Catty, I said, I [00:31:00] want you to be here. I want you to hear what they've got because this is something that mattered to me that I wish I knew at 18. So, We pass it forward. Thank you. 

[00:31:17] Wafaya: And I just want to say, you know, she's giving me credit, but really it is a collective and, uh, there are curl specialists all over the country.

[00:31:31] Wafaya: It is definitely growing more and more not enough, but I do want to make that clear that that is something that is happening in the world. 

[00:31:41] Syd: Yes, absolutely. And Lubbe, you made numerous amazing points. For one, thank you so much for sharing and bringing someone into this space. I think that's a lot of times people, you know, get told about these spaces and that's really how we start.

[00:31:55] Syd: But another point that you made was authenticity. And I would love to hear anyone who would [00:32:00] love to share their story about how authentic they felt. prior to understanding their curls. I know for myself, there was a point when I was getting relaxers and straightening. And then you asked yourself, how authentic do I feel or do I feel like I'm fitting into a mold?

[00:32:14] Ashira: This is a Shira again. Hello. There's just one thing that I want to say about this, which is that I always felt like there was a part of me that was a fraud. Um, because of like I had, there's embarrassment and this like hiding and I had to change things. And I do have to say that since, and I told you my forties, but it was really my mid forties that I came here and it did help me feel like myself and a true authentic version, you know, just, you know, owning my, my look.

[00:32:54] Syd: Yeah, absolutely. Cue. [00:33:00] Cue! 

[00:33:00] Q: Uh, I was born in the United States, and I grew up in a predominantly white community, and so my curly hair was always something that made me different. Um, and not part of the crowd and I was already not a popular kid for many reasons. Um, so I spent so much time trying to straighten my hair and it would just turn into these like grotesque waves.

[00:33:24] Q: And eventually I gave up and just cut it super, super short, but that also prevented me from being able to achieve a look that I wanted to achieve. And over the years I tried to grow out my hair. And I would always hit this like threshold of like two, two or three inches where the frizz would start coming in and I'd try to control it.

[00:33:47] Q: And it would just seem to use more and more handfuls of product every day to the point where the hair was just so heavy. It just looked like I was dumped grease onto my head. Um, [00:34:00] and then I gave up for a long time until the pandemic hit and my hair grew out and I was debating cutting it. And I was like, you know what?

[00:34:08] Q: Let me check out. a place that focuses on curly hair and I just googled this and this place was only 10 minutes from where I lived luckily and came here and it was really transformative. I walked through those doors and being able to grow out my hair and just get that little extra boost of confidence that I needed really had a big impact in me just being able to express myself in other ways and It's been a, this place is kind of like family.

[00:34:42] Q: I, some, someone asked me just today, like, do I work here? I'm like, no, but I'm here all the time. Yeah. So it's, it's really special to be able to find your authentic beauty and to allow it shine through and then that allows. [00:35:00] deeper versions of yourself to emerge as well.

[00:35:07] Syd: I don't know why, but this like whole conversation, I'm like tearing group curl therapy. And I'm really here for it. Anyone else? Anyone else? London, I'm not 

[00:35:19] Wafaya: going to make you speak because you don't want to, but we do have a young representative here. Wait, but how old are you? 12. That's something to celebrate that a 12 year old gets to feel empowered and her natural crown.

[00:35:33] Wafaya: That's definitely something we're very proud of. And it's one of our favorite things to do, right, Leigh? Yeah, we love empowering 

[00:35:41] Syd: the young generation. As Luby said, pass it forward. 

[00:35:44] Wafaya: Absolutely.

[00:35:54] Mony: So usually I'm like nervous to talk in front of people. I'm not nervous to be [00:36:00] behind the chair, but I'm nervous to talk around people and whatnot. Okay. So I grew up not being, not being black enough and not being white enough. And so I grew up, I tried everything that I could do to be black. I tried to braid my hair, straighten my hair with a hot comb, which was not right for my hair.

[00:36:25] Mony: Um, my mom killed me by that, you know. It was, it was kind of hard because I went to a predominantly black school. Um, and then I started working at a predominantly straight hair salon. And I will always tell him, can I show you, can you straighten my hair? Can you straighten my hair? No one wanted to straighten my hair.

[00:36:42] Mony: They were scared to straighten my hair. They thought it was going to take a long time. Um, however, just coming here and being able to be myself, just, I'm just very grateful that we can come here and we can talk about our journey and our stories. And it's not just one predominantly race is [00:37:00] everybody because everyone had their chance to deal with their hair, deal with their waves.

[00:37:06] Mony: You, you curly girl, don't matter. You got a crinkle, it's curly. But just being able to just do that and just talk freely among each other is just amazing. And we're therapists also, y'all know that, right? Hairpist. Hairpist. So, uh, yeah. Uh, thank you for letting me talk. I usually don't talk. I wasn't going to talk, but thank you.

[00:37:32] Alex: Beautiful. I love you. Thank you. 

[00:37:34] Syd: We, um, thank you guys all for your time today. It is so appreciated to hear everyone's insight and their voices. We want you to know your voice is always heard, especially in this space. And just to constantly remember that it's a collective. It's a collective effort. It's a collective space.

[00:37:50] Syd: And it takes each individual person, each individual curly, wavy, swavy, whoever you are, to embrace and empower not only yourself, but really the future [00:38:00] generation. guys so much. 

[00:38:02] Wafaya: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank 

[00:38:06] Announcer: you everyone.

[00:38:11] Announcer: The Curl Coast is brought to you from the Oasis Curl Salon in Rockville, Maryland. Hosted by the one and only Wafeya Abdallah. If you like the show, please leave us a 5 star rating and if you've got some nice things to say, go ahead and leave us a review. But most importantly, please Please share the show with anyone you think would enjoy it.

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